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posted by: surrogate (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (4:23 pm) Thanks a lot. How am I supposed to deal with this heart attack? posted by: LadyG (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (4:33 pm) I have already signed up Kurt. posted by: fractalmom (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (4:39 pm) uh, no thanks. posted by: kurtmaddox (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (5:25 pm) Reply to: surrogate Hey, everyone gets tired of casting "protest votes" now and then! What did voting for Harry Browne ever get me, huh? (If you answered "nothing", you're thinking straight!) With Republicans we get a government spending too much to enable the rich without demanding it benefit the country strategically in return, which Ronald Reagan at least gave lip service. I hate the prospect of Universal Health Care, but, I've come to realize it would be more of a reality check for our system than the current system, which is just completely broken. Also, I simply believe Obama has the potential to become that leader that breaks away enough from partisanship to move the country in some positive directions. posted by: kurtmaddox (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (5:26 pm) Reply to: fractalmom uh, that's why they call it "Democracy" :-) posted by: kurtmaddox (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (5:26 pm) Reply to: LadyG Well, then I'm glad to be in such good company! posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 07.06.08 (6:30 pm) Obama is about as close to being Libertarian as you are to being Baptist. posted by: kurtmaddox (reply) post date: 07.06.08 (8:31 pm) Reply to: PastorDave I started to say something about the Bush Administration and/or Senator McCain being about as close to being a Christian... then, I thought, naw -- I'll take the high road ;-) Still, Obama's certainly at least as close to being a Libertarian as McCain -- so it's at worst a tie ballgame from that perspective. You always forget about the socially self-governing aspect of Libertarianism, PD! Libertarians believe we should keep the government, as much as possible, out of pocket books, our bedrooms and our wedding vows. Libertarians are also opposed to the Iraq War for the most part and are generally non-interventionists. So, there is a pretty good case to be made that Obama is the more Libertarian of the two major party candidates. Also, I wouldn't vote for Bob Barr for dogcatcher so my usual cynical protest vote isn't an option. Hey you! I used to be a darn good Calvinist! I was such a pre-millenialist that I didn't even eat Post Toasties! lol! (A little seminary humor for your benefit.) posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 07.07.08 (6:50 am) Reply to: kurtmaddox So, as a neo-libertarian, please tell me how Obama is committed to keeping government out of our pocketbooks. You know, surely you know, if this guy gets into office with a Democrat majority in Congress, that major spending will soon ensue. With Clinton, he had the restraint of a Republican majority, and therefore can feign to claim fiscal moderation. Not so with this guy, who cut his teeth helping the needy of inner-city Chicago to find every available government program and dollar. To him, government IS the answer. There is no way a true Libertarian would step within a mile of such politics. posted by: kurtmaddox (reply) post date: 07.07.08 (8:36 am) Reply to: PastorDave C'mon PD! Let's dispense with the "there's no way a true" this or that would do something or the other -- that's a very weak debate tool and does nothing to contribute to a thoughtful debate. As I've said before, there's no way a "true Libertarian" would vote for either candidate using your logic. I stated as much several times. I've become much more of a lower-case "l" libertarian of late and as much as I'd theoretically support a radically different approach to government -- supporting theories that have very little practical chance of ever becoming part of the mainstream of American politics isn't a very rational program. Your comment about the "restraint" of the Republican majority would be funny if it weren't such a pernicious lie. If we ever needed proof that the Republican Party is just another type of "tax and spend" institution, we'd need to look no further than the past 7 years for proof. You already know the routine -- Clinton left office with a budget surplus and the rest is easy history... Unfortunately, I believe it will likely be neccessary for our government to shift to a massive Keynesian spending cycle of the magnitude we haven't seen for a very long time. The dollar amount of the deficit isn't relevant -- only the perecentage of GDP -- and we've had a much higher percentages in the past during times of crisis and we will need to return to that policy for a time to have a shot at avoiding depression-like factors like deflation. (We already have deflation in housing, of course, which is where most American's wealth is stored -- in their homes.) Also, why in the heck would you want anyone to vote Libertarian? The Libertarians are probably going to help defeat McCain with a strong showing by Bob Barr of 2 or 3 % -- which is very possible. If Bob Barr gets more than 1% of the popular vote then McCain is big trouble. You can keep repeating your line over and over but it is no more compelling with each repitition -- tell us why a Libertarian would EVER vote for John McCain? Libertarians believe in free markets, sure, but, they also believe in "FREE MINDS". They are supporters of a woman's right to have access to abortion and they are absolutely on the side of those who would extend the legal benefits and social distinction of marriage to homosexuals. Again, why would you want anyone to support this way of thinking when you've been clear in your opposition to these social issues many times? I guess for you, government's only THE answer when it comes to regulating ALL human behavior EXCEPT for how they spend their money? |
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